Why I Disagree with Pat Flynn and Yaro Starak….and, Where Do We Go From Here?

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Long-recognized as highly respected names in the internet marketing industry, both Pat Flynn and Yaro Starak, have successfully architected blog websites (and personal brands) that many throughout the world turn to for leadership, mentorship, and guidance. With tens of thousands of subscribers each, they have both worked very hard at developing their own respective online presences….along with massive, influential internet marketing empires.

Simply put, when these particular two bloggers speak, many many people worldwide listen.

Their sphere of influence is undeniable, and, as such, it is expected that others will be watching their every move and actions with great intrigue and anticipation. Whether assumed through force, or by the occasional successful exertion of influence, this degree of scrutiny is expected of anyone who is a Leader: with a high level of success that is welcomed by some, and coveted greatly by others.

While I have had little to no interaction with Yaro Starak, Pat Flynn was influential and instrumental in many of my online successes. To downplay this help, regardless of how large or small the disagreement, would be to underscore the tremendous value he has provided over the years. Yaro Starak and Pat Flynn are mentioned in this post, in conjunction, because, by all accounts I can find, their treatment of this situation and respective stances regarding this issue appear to be nearly identical.

This disagreement has become to large to ignore.

Here is what Pat Flynn has done for me:

• His free eBook, amongst many other high-price tag alternatives, provided the information necessary to earn thousands of dollars last year, on into this year. For months of writing, researching, and developing my 6-Book InfoBarrel Success Course, the pages of his eBook were sprawled all over my desk: relentlessly highlighted in a collective, unstapled, disorganization.
• After documenting over 15 entries that completely reveal every trial and and success I faced in the writing and development of my Course, starting with entry #1, Pat Flynn gave my partner and I a tremendous testimonial and endorsement. I’m convinced that this course (and the tremendous foundational research underlying it) could have sold on its own, however, I also believe that that single endorsement successfully aligned our Course with a very established and respected brand–our course MAY not have sold nearly as much as it did without it.
• When I encountered road blocks, or simply needed help with my “buy now” buttons, he responded to emails quickly. Where he could have charged me large fees, he didn’t.
• In accordance with the deal that I made with my wife, TacticalCashFlow’s blog design layout will undergo a redesign (eventually), in order to greater achieve several elements that I feel it is currently lacking right now. My current design has meshed several blog design principles learned from Pat Flynn’s blog, as well as, such blogs as Alex Frazier’s “Blogussion”, Michael Dunlop’s “Income Diary”, Chris Brogan’s Blog, and, yes, even Yaro Starak’s “Entrepreneur’s Journey” (Among many many others….).
• He has provided tremendous value on his blog, not just to me, but to many other people worldwide.

I have never questioned his generosity, knowledge or expertise. Where even elite online bloggers have questionably (and suspiciously) faded into obscurity when it comes to integrity and transparency, Pat Flynn has been the architect of a highly successful brand that many would be stupid not to attempt to emulate or reproduce. In the thousands of blog posts I have read, top tier bloggers have embraced the reproduction of their business models, while saying that that reflects very highly upon the teacher themselves. As is customary in internet marketing, many people, including myself, have learned from these blogger’s teachings, have adopted and applied them, and have attempted to expound upon their respective business models all while injecting their own sense of authority, expertise, and uniqueness.

My stance is rooted, not in argument, but, rather, in genuine concern over the implications that the stances of several top tier bloggers will have on a much broader internet marketing industry. While it may seem that this blog post was deliberately structured to hammer away at any one individual, it is instead meant to be an impetus for deeper discussion regarding what is accepted and what is not accepted in this industry. This debate is multi-faceted and complex, and it is my strong opinion that it NEEDS to be had. This goes way beyond any one person’s blog, business, brand, course, service, or product. This issue is at the forefront of an online frontier in which many have crafted million dollar empires.

Timeline and Back-Story

• June 10th, 2010 – Internet marketer, and controversial internet personality, Tyrone Shum, uploads his YouTube video entitled “Tools I Use to Generate a Monthly Income From My Business — Part 1″ . In this video, Tyrone Shum explains exactly what tools he uses, and why he uses them, to generate over $10,000/month in revenue. At this time, over 1,800 people have now viewed this video.
• June 11th, 2010 – Internet marketer, Yaro Starak, releases his blog post “From Zero to Six Figures in Under a Year”. As his blog post title mentions, this video includes an interview between Yaro Starak and Tyrone Shum in which Tyrone Shum reveals exactly what he did to rise so quickly in earnings, in such a short time frame. Tyrone Shum begins to develop a monumental following of passionate people who hope to learn from his expertise.
• June 13th, 2010 – Tyrone releases his second YouTube video installment regarding the tools he uses to generate over $10,000/month in revenue, appropriately entitled “Tools I Use to Generate a Monthly Income From My Business — Part 2″.
• June 21st, 2010 — Internet marketer and virtual CEO, Chris Ducker, publishes his blog post/recording entitled “VBL006–Online Marketing and Outsourcing Life, with Tyrone Shum”. This 24-minute audio conversation includes insights into valuable entrepreneurial and marketing topics. Tyrone also speaks about the strategies he uses to earn over $10,000/month from his online business. In early 2011 (exact date is unknown because of the deletion of emails), Chris Ducker and I exchanged several emails after I emailed him regarding my concerns about his partnership with Tyrone Shum in his “Outsourcing Live” Program. Chris said that he had received emails from several other concerned readers. I contacted him after coming across promotional banners on his website. It is not clear if they still did this program together. From what I can tell, his banners were removed and the program was shut down. I had expressed that I would support him no matter what he decided to do. Chris did emphasize, to me, the value that reputation would play in his ultimate decision.
• November 12th, 2010 – Internet marketer, Hector Cuevas, released his blog post entitled “26 Unique Ways to Stand Out From the Crowd Online”. Several months after Yaro Starak’s blog post highlighting Tyrone Shum’s enormous success online, Tyrone Shum achieves the #1 position on Hector’s blog post. It’s unclear as to whether Tyrone was featured as #1 because of the value of his recommendations, or because he was the only submission to include a YouTube video.
• November 22nd, 2010 – Mark Thompson, of List Eruption, publishes his pillar blog post entitled “100 Bloggers You MUST Follow on Twitter”. Of 100 outstanding bloggers, Tyrone Shum makes it to #16 on this list.
• October 12th, 2010 – Tyrone Shum successfully makes it to #43 on Michael Dunlop’s pillar blog post entitled “Top 50 Influential Bloggers”. Because no dates are included in his blog posts, it is an assumption that the blog post date entry was the same date as the first post comment.
• December ?, 2010 – Internet Marketer, Tyrone Shum, releases a confessional YouTube video publicly apologizing for portraying himself in a manner that was less than truthful. Articulate semantics involved, varied online opinions represented his actions as everything from a “simple mistake” to him being a “scammer” and a flat-out “fraud”. No exact day in December is associated with this video/blog post.

*Update: Shortly after publishing this blog post, the above link to Tyrone Shum’s confessional video appears to have been deactivated (if you click on the above link, you will see that his confessional video no longer appears on his blog).  You can find it on his YouTube channel located HERE. At the time of this update, it currently has 2,700+ views. On May 3rd, 2011, Pat Flynn published his April income report, in which he attributed $11,186.00 to his partnership with Tyrone Shum as part of their $799 Niche Site Coaching 2.0 Program.

• December 13th, 2010 — Internet Marketer, Nicole S. Cooper, releases her “5 Blogs that Every Internet Marketer Should Be Following” blog post. Tyrone Shum is #6 on this list, which appears to go to “7″ instead of “5″.
• December 17th, 2010 – Yaro Starak releases his blog post “How Important is Trust and Credibility in Internet Marketing?”. Within the comment’s section of this particular blog post, Yaro received some criticism after being quoted as saying this: “He is a friend of mine from down in Sydney; I’ve met him a couple of times; totally respect the guy; completely trustworthy; have no issues with him whatsoever. I have interviewed him on my site, he has given some great information on outsourcing and is an all round good internet marketer and good guy!”. In this video, Yaro speaks of Tyrone briefly in a manner that is meant to be a seque or spring board into broader issues in an already untrustworthy and skeptical industry. Yaro says that sometimes there are techniques in internet marketing that can be easily misconstrued by the public: giving credence to the importance of being accurate and clear in communications. Few will dispute Yaro when he says that the internet is filled with alot of scammers and justifiable skeptics. My viewpoint on his overall stance can be read further down this blog post.
• December 21st, 2010 – Internet marketer, Randy Cantrell, releases a response blog post (“Deception Sells: Fake It ‘til You Make it, Then Fake it Some More”) in response to Yaro Starak’s insight into Tyrone Shum’s video confession. In this blog post, he assumes a very strong position against Shum’s actions, although he mentions that he has purchased from Yaro, Randy calls Yaro’s stance on this particular matter “suspect”.
• December 30th, 2010 — Tyrone Shum permanently deactivates comment submission on his blog post/video entitled “A Confessional Video: I Am Sorry I Lied”. After 150+ comments, his closure of comments on this blog post is cited as being done for personal reasons. Tyrone received tremendous support and encouragement.
• January 2011 – As has become customary from Pat Flynn since the creation of his blog, he released his January 2011 income report. While some skeptics arose in the comment’s section of this particular blog post, I have absolutely no reason to believe that Pat has lied or misconstrued any of his earnings. Gradually expanding and diversifying his online business earnings beyond his Green Exam Academy eBook success, each month has realized both increases and decreases in certain aspects of his earnings—in complete transparency; he has detailed both his successes and failures. In this particular income report, his initial (1.0) Niche Site Couching Course with Tyrone Shum accounted for $7,750.15 of his $35,607.11 in reported monthly earnings. It is unclear at this time what the exact nature of his partnership with Tyrone was, or how much of the total earnings were split between both parties. At a 50% revenue split, the course would have earned, in total, $15,500.30.
• January 1st, 2011 — Internet marketer, Vinay Patankar, publishes his video/blog post entitled “Video of the Week: Tyrone Shum–Unconventional Advice”.
• January 5th, 2011 — Tyrone Shum is reached out to, and his success story is included in Steve’s free blog eBook give-away entitled “Success Secrets of 28 Professional Bloggers”. As a viable tactic in establishing and developing an online brand and blog, it is customary for bloggers to give-away free eBooks in return for a reader subscribing to their blog. The ultimate goal of this tactic is to establish a longterm trusting relationship with readers/subscribers.
• February 8th, 2011 – Tyrone releases his blog post “How to Determine Who Are the Honest Internet Marketers?”. Briefly referencing his confessional video, Shum explains what traits and characteristics that you must be weary of online.
• February 9th, 2011 – Nearly 4 months after featuring Tyrone Shum as #1 on his “26 Unique Ways to Stand Out From the Crowd Online”, Tyrone successfully achieves the #5 position on his blog post “Five Popular Bloggers Reveal How Podcasting Helps Their Business”. One aspect of my opinion can be read in the comment’s section of the latter post.
• February 14th, 2011 – Pat Flynn release his blog post “How to Build a (BIG) Personal Brand Online”.
• April 8th, 2011 – Pat Flynn and Tyrone Shum announced their second round (2.0) of Niche site coaching. On the same day, this announcement was made simultaneously on both their blogs here (Pat Flynn) and here (Tyrone Shum).
• April 20th, 2011 – With over 100 applicants, as mentioned by Pat Flynn in one of his blog post comments, this is the day marked to reveal the 30 applicants that have been selected for Tyrone and Pat’s $799 Niche Site Course.
• April 20th, 2011 *(Update Since This Post Was Published)* — Pat Flynn and Tyrone Shum’s Niche Site coaching program officially moves forward, with over 220+ applicants all vying to become one of 30 spots to engage in their classroom-style training. The tremendous response to their program was announced on Pat Flynn’s Facebook Page.

Arguments FOR/IN FAVOR of Tyrone, his actions, and/or his partnership with Pat Flynn:

• Humans, by nature, are inherently imperfect. Tyrone is not perfect. You are not perfect. I am not perfect. Noone is perfect. As imperfect people, we are all deserving of forgiveness, redemption, and a second chance. Because we are all imperfect, criticism of Tyrone can only be effectively done by hypocrites who are judging others.
• Tyrone is a hard worker. Those who work hard should be respected.
• The internet is loosely/poorly regulated. As such, it is the smart, intelligent, resourceful, and successful internet marketer/entrepreneur that knows when to exploit weak systems, and when to refrain. Tyrone is smart, intelligent, and resourceful. He should be admired.
• Few online take action. Tyrone took action. Others should learn from him. This is commendable.
• Tyrone embodied a great deal courage and bravery by revealing to the world, publicly, that he had portrayed himself in a less than favorable manner. This is commendable.
• Many internet marketers develop and establish personal brands on lies and deceptions that endure for a lifetime, and never admit it. Tyrone did. This is also commendable.
• You do not have to be successful in the methods you are teaching. Prerequisites for teaching involve having an established, trustworthy, brand, and being able and willing to teach. Subject matter expertise and personal success is secondary or irrelevant.
• Everyone (“Most” or “Many” People) lie about things online, and, those who haven’t, are destined to do so eventually. In comparison, Tyrone’s lies were insignificant to the lies of others. At least Tyrone admitted that he had lied. This is admirable and deserving of trust.
• The success and value derived by students overshadows past deeds. Admittance to past lies and deception, while establishing his brand for several months, is outweighed by the monetary success of students.
• Someone with an established, trustworthy, brand likes and approves of Tyrone. Because I trust that person, I also trust Tyrone.
• He is a Christian that merely succumbed to the hype surrounding him. He is deserving of forgiveness, empathy, and compassion. To forgive entirely means to forget and move on.
• Tyrone is a good motivator, and a good teacher.

Arguments AGAINST/NOT IN FAVOR of Tyrone:

• Subject matter expertise, and past documented proof of success, is required in order to teach. Tyrone’s expertise revolved around outsourcing, not niche site building or affiliate marketing. Tyrone, therefore, should not be teaching.
• “Those with the qualities and values to “become a leader” start at the beginning – there’s no shortcut in gaining the sort of integrity that inspire those to be willing to follow. I’m not saying leaders can’t be human – but they definitely don’t start as snake oil salesmen and thieves.” — (“Chris”, Entrepreneur’s Journey Blog Post Comment Section, December 25th, 2010)
• Tyrone is not suited for leadership, in an already skeptical industry, because any semblance of a value system was compromised so easily.
• Although repentant, past behaviors demonstrate an orchestrated trend to amplify and further his brand through strategic and tactical partnerships with top tier bloggers who are trustworthy. This level of deception, and willingness to engage in this deception, is never to be trusted again.
• His confession was driven by mounting guilt that caused him to become repentant. Because his confession was motivated by guilt, it was not pure and genuine. Pureness and genuineness were further comprised by near instantaneous teaming up with a top tier blogger to sell a course for $799.
• He has lied once. He will lie again.
• Virtually no perceived consequences were had, outside of feeling bad for himself.
• If an individual can lie and deceive thousands of people, for months while establishing his brand, he is to never be trusted again.

Unanswered Questions about Tyrone Shum:

• It is unclear, at this time, to what extent Tyrone lied. Initial attempts to establish himself and his brand as an industry expert were done so by conveying that he earned over $10,000/month. With simple mathematics applied, we can see that, with those earnings, he would earn nearly $120,000/year. This is impressive. While his confessional video details the fact that he lied, it is unclear as to ‘by how much’ he lied. Was he earning $9,500/month, and rounding it to $10,000/month? or, was he earning less than $500, only to claim he earned $10,000/month? To some this may be relevant, to others it may not be. Different philosophical viewpoints may deem ANY lie, regardless of it’s size or nature, pertinent and unacceptable. On the other hand, this may only be pertinent to some if his earnings were outrageously construed. With a clear information void, it is difficult to know.
• It is unclear, at this time, to what extent all the bloggers, following Tyrone’s confessional video, agree or disagree with his actions and behavior. It is likely that a void of information caused them to simply not know what was occurring. It is also likely that those bloggers would have remained indifferent and supportive, and would have interviewed/featured him anyway. This brings to the forefront several issues regarding just how thorough blogger screening should be prior to featuring or interviewing other bloggers/internet marketers.
• It is unclear, at this time, if any monies received from customers, while Tyrone had portrayed himself in a less than truthful manner, will be returned to those in which they were obtained from. Some will say that he earned them ‘fair-and-square’, while others have said that returning these funds would be a required condition to be satisfied before an apology is accepted and forgiveness is given. Dependent on your stance, this question may or may not be necessary to be asked or answered.

My View:

Redemption and forgiveness are essential elements in life. Along a similar vein, imperfection is a fundamental cornerstone of human beings and to human existence. It is expected. Noone is perfect. I don’t believe this is an issue that very many people will dispute or debate. Given current information available, as well as the timeline trends, there appears to have been virtually no consequences, outside of feeling intense guilt with himself, for his behavior and actions. The governance of entire countries have been established to issue out judgments regarding people’s actions: consequences that are meant to serve as both individual punishment, as well as, a demonstration to the masses that this behavior will not be accepted or tolerated. From a delicate slap on a child’s hand, to the issuing of a life sentence, these very things vindicate the importance of consequences in society and in life.

No, I’m not perfect, but this isn’t about perfection. It would be highly unreasonable for anyone to be expected to be perfect.

Advocating the idea of the application of consequences isn’t just something I construed overnight in a shallow attempt to begin unearthing and defaming established names and brands. In fact, for as vocal as I am, I exercised great restraint in the expression of my opinion–keeping it bottled up for months and months (nearly a year) before I deemed it necessary to speak out about it. To me, the timeline presented is nothing short of suspect, and displays a complete and utter void of consequences.

Unfortunately, even the most influential, top-tier bloggers have been reluctant to come out and express any semblance of disgust and disdain for this sort of behavior. Not only have these bloggers not outrightly condoned this behavior, but they have even gone so far as trying to justify it by standing up for it, defending it, and even partnering with him. To the casual impressionable onlooker, this degree of willful acceptance and partnership demonstrates and conveys that not only is this sort of behavior acceptable, but that it is also an extremely effective and viable way to build and reinforce an online brand.

As online Leaders, if we are to exemplify acceptance by going to great lengths to justify negative behavior (through words, actions, and partnerships), then we have absolutely no right to complain when others apply similar behaviors to their online and offline marketing. By not outrightly condemning this behavior, both Pat Flynn and Yaro Starak, are assuming very weak positions/stances, at best, in a very justifiably skeptical industry. Despite the enormous amount of help they have given to many, I strongly believe that they have both made a very grave tactical error in their own brand positioning. While their respective blogs have been developed to elicit tremendous loyalty, many readers are doing them a great injustice by NOT conveying their views. For as much as it ‘appears’ like my views are in the minority, and highly unpopular, I’m not convinced that they are–I believe that the views of those who are passionate about this issue are either being subtly quelled and ostracized by a vocal base of supporters and comments, or are being made to feel that there is absolutely no room for criticism or judgment. Afterall, to do so, is typically immediately greeted with a “No one is perfect, you shouldn’t be judging someone else because YOU, yourself, aren’t perfect”.

I fully recognize that my outlying and ‘unpopular’ viewpoints on this matter diverge so greatly from those of tight-knit, top-tier, bloggers, that this blog post may single handedly cause TacticalCashFlow to be dealt a formidable death blow. I’m fully prepared for this blog post to be my last and final. On the eve of my second combat tour overseas, those who read this blog are already aware that my current circumstances will actually make it quite difficult to keep this blog updated to the point that would encourage loyal, dedicated, readership anyway. In this context, I have very little to loose, and very little to gain, by assuming an unpopular stance like this. I don’t expect Twitter Tweets or Facebook Likes. For the sake of their own brands and businesses, I do believe that it is imperative that these individuals reevaluate their own stances regarding this issue.

Beyond My View:

Even if my views were completely removed, the overall impact on personal branding still exists. While some loyalty may be reinforced through the perceived courage and “a second chance” that may occur, many others who think differently regarding fundamental ethics and morality are becoming very ostracized and distant from the brands themselves. In the online world, life, and leadership, perception truly is everything. While it’s commendable for one to vigorously defend and stand up for such a partnership they believe in, doing so must be done with great caution along with the understanding that overall branding can be significantly affected by even giving the remote perception of value alignment. Partnerships such as these flirt almost too dangerously close to the same controversy that can forever tarnish brands that are even subtly associated.

Embedding oneself, their product, their service, or their brand within a controversial issue can be a highly effective tactic in marketing, however, this issue is TOO controversial. Any internet marketer/blogger with even a remote understanding or pulse on the fundamental issues that tick others in this industry, would understand that such a deeply ingrained controversial issue (that many are extremely passionate about), flirts almost too dangerously close for comfort. A brutal reality that all bloggers must face is that you can never realistically expect to make everyone happy. You must, however, have systems in place that allow you to gain the most accurate, unbiased, accounts of how the consensus truly feels.

General Unanswered Questions for Debate and Discussion:

• If the top bloggers and internet marketers in the world are justifying these actions by partnering with this individual, to the tune of thousands of dollars earned each month, should we really be surprised when someone with significantly less influence begins to apply similar methods to further themselves and their personal brands?
• To what extent is lying permissible in the arena of internet marketing? Is it impossible to succeed without lying? Is lying paramount to effectively influencing and triggering the emotions required to elicit an emotional purchasing response?
• In an industry where many struggle to make money online, and are looking for sound leadership, just how readily should forgiveness and redemption be given?
• Is it even possible to condemn negative behavior while simultaneously partnering with the person who engaged in that behavior?
• To what extent should bloggers/internet marketers be modeling themselves and their business models off of others? Should this modeling be seen as “copying” or “plagiarizing”, or is it smart to model yourself off of others with proven business models? When establishing your own personal brand, how do you inject uniqueness and authority without compromising your own values and beliefs?
• Do bloggers/internet marketers have an obligation, to their readers/to those who trust them, to screen other potential interview candidates before including them on their blog? What should this ‘screening’ process consist of?
• When bloggers/internet marketers see an injustice in any system, is it their duty to speak up and be vocal about it? If they fail to speak up, and all while knowing about it, are they also complicit in not warning others?

Where Do We Go From Here?

As mentioned earlier, many very valuable lessons and topics for debate can be had regarding the gradual, continual, unfolding of these events. Again, this isn’t mean to “judge” any one person, however, I believe it would be irresponsible of me to not utilize this entire blog post to derive actionable steps that can be taken to craft your own marketing online and offline. Because the main issue, and all issues stemming from it, essentially revolve around a finely crafted headline/effective sales copy meant to further and reinforce the “Tyrone Shum” brand, it is important that we focus on this. Where Tyrone frequently referenced earning over $100,000/year, there are many things that a less authority internet marketer can do online in order to sell themselves and their products. Rather than focus on money earned in a headline, it is the skilled marketer that can craft marketing messages that are entirely truthful and don’t even remotely flirt with the resounding grey line between truth and falsehood. Despite what has become accepted as popular belief, you don’t need to portray yourself as something you aren’t in order to succeed.

Rather than use financial earnings to get people to follow you or buy your products, you can focus on such things as traffic gained to your articles or content. I don’t earn nearly what Pat Flynn or Yaro Starak earn, however, I have had many smaller success of my own. Unfortunately, the cheap and “easy” way (at least until you are found out) is to completely embed yourself in a lie that goes spinning recklessly out of control. In order to do this, there is no substitute for hard work. Because the written word will forever be a powerful aspect of both on and offline marketing, you can challenge yourself to write articles, and set realistic, obtainable, and measurable goals. Gain, for yourself, authority by actually DOING what you hope to one day teach others to do. Shortcutting this process is reserved for the liars and schemers of this world.

This entry was written by Howie and posted on April 18, 2011 at 12:57 pm and filed under Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.

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